[Trustthapo]

Hello all I've decided to take the plunge into the Marine tank world! I decided that a good first tank for me would be a small FOWLR tank containing either a pair or a single Fire Goby, or some sort of other good beginner Goby. Any suggestions? I would like to keep a pair of Clowns, but I've always loved Gobies :3

I've found a few articles on the reefland.com forums, amongst other places, on how to set up FOWLRs- I would need a form of mechanical filtration, a protein skimmer, lighting, a heater, hydrometer, and all of the proper test kits, plus the basic needed stuff- thermometers, quarantine tanks, etc. Correct?

I was wondering, for one, what is the smallest tank size I could house a pair of Fire Gobies in? A single fish? I have heard many mixed comments on tank sizes- I have read that I should use tanks as small as ten gallons, and some say no less than twenty. Anywhere I can get some good, solid info on how to take care of Fire Gobies?

Secondly, what is a preferred form of filtration? I don't want anything super-amazing, but I also want something that gets the job done right.

I hate to be such a newbie... asking so many obnoxious, "DUH!" questions!

I know not to rush into these things; that I need to take my time with marine tanks.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me. Sorry for being so... uninformed, for lack of better words. I just don't want to start off badly, and I would really prefer good, sound advice from people who know what they're doing.

[ralphie]

WELCOME to the salty side.

In salt water tank, it is usually recommended the larger the better. In fact many people will have a tank and then a sump below the tank which can be the same size as the main tank. This allows you to hide equipment thus keeping it out of the main tank and alos increases the overall volume of the water.

People keep exceeeding small tanks called nanos but that is recommended only for experienced people. I would not get a ten tank gallon and would say a 20 is the smallest size but the larger the better. How about a 30 gallon?

For a salt water tank you need lots of circulation, at least 10x the amount of water in your tank. Most people accomplish this using several powerheads placed around this tank. This allows for the proper turn over as well as aiming them to eliminate dead spots. If you have enough live rock or a deep sand bed, that will be your biological filtration. For mechanical or chemical filtration I would recommend a hang on the back or side of the tank filter. This way you can easily access it and then just put a bag of carbon in there.

FYI, on my 75 gallon, I really do not have any mechanical filtration. I have around 90lbs of live rock, a deep sand bed and then lots of circulation due to MaxiJet power heads placed around the tank. I do have a bag of carbon in my sump for chemical filtration. I have removed all filter socks or foam covering in my tank. It was too much work for me to keep clean.

Have you read this thread?

Another big issue is water. Where are you getting your water from? IMHO, that is the most important thing. I have a reef tank and have my own RO/DI unit for making water since then I am starting off with pure water and nothing else. I would recommned against using tap water since you can not know what is in there.

I hate to be such a newbie... asking so many obnoxious, "DUH!" questions

Remember we were all newbies at one point and we all asked questions and I am still asking questions and still learning. I am hoping by answering questions, I can help people avoid mistakes I made and save them money I ended up throwing away.

I know not to rush into these things; that I need to take my time with marine tanks.

I thnk that is a great way to start. In this hobby nothing good ever happens fast. Remember after setting up your tank, it needs to cycle which can take a month or more.

Sorry for being so... uninformed, for lack of better words. I just don't want to start off badly

Do not worry it about. We would rather you start off correct and enjoy the hobby then have a bad start and get out. After all this is supposed to be a hobby which you enjoy for a long time. For example, I have a clown fish in my tank which is over 8 years old I think. I actually have to ask my wife how old she is.

Good Luck and ask any questions...

[ralphie]

Here are some references:

Wikepedia and another one.

[Trustthapo]

People keep exceeeding small tanks called nanos but that is recommended only for experienced people. I would not get a ten tank gallon and would say a 20 is the smallest size but the larger the better. How about a 30 gallon?

I have an old 29 Gallon just collecting dust in my backyard! Used to house several native Turtles and a few Sunfish, and they left quite a mess. I heard Vinegar and a salt solution is good for cleaning tanks; will get right on cleaning and testing it for leaks. Has been around for over 25 years...

For a salt water tank you need lots of circulation, at least 10x the amount of water in your tank.

So, what you're saying, is that I would do the normal calculation to find the needed GPH for the tank, and multiply that by ten?

Also, I understand that the tank's live rock/sand/other microorganisms and inverts will do most of the cleaning for you?

Another big issue is water. Where are you getting your water from?

Well, my dad and I just put in a well out back. We live in FL, on the Gulf Coast Panhandle, so we have an abundance of underground limestone cave systems to tap into. And I hear you on the tapwater bit. Looked at it under a microscope slide when I was a kid... now, that was scary.
Anyway, when I get the pump and the such installed on the well, I'll make sure to take in samples to test. I have found a RODI system for sale on Craig's List, and I am also interested in the mini Reefer systems I've seen advertised online. Now, if I'm understanding all of this, You can drink and use the waste water from your RODI system? D:

More questions:
-Will Live Rock need any special lighting at all? I didn't know if any of the Coraline growths could benefit from it; I can't really afford Halogen lighting juuuust yet. D:
-If I were to keep low light corals, what lighting would you reccomend? Moderate light corals? As I said, can't really invest in super-duper lighting anytime soon, but you never know.
-Sandbox/Landscaping sand is fine to use? Honestly, I've been using the stuff in my freshwater tanks since I started getting into fishkeeping(about 4 years back, which isn't really something to say, as I'm a High-school Sophomore)
-Speaking of High School, college is inevitable for me. How stressful would it be to transport a tank like this to a Uni possibly 200 or 300 miles away? I could see (possibly) bagging the Live Rock and, maybe, leaving the sand bed as-is, draining the water, etc. but I know that this would probably just be a far fetched idea.
-And speaking of Florida, I live about ten minutes from the Gulf of Mexico. Now, I have heard how absolultey stupid and risky and terrible and plain old not good this is to do, but possibly, could I add a scoop of beach sand or a cup of water to the tank to help give it a jump start?
-What would be the Fish per Inch formula for marine tanks? I found an ancient- get this, a T.F.H. book- entitled "Marine Fish," published in 1979. VERY outdated. I had a laugh while reading this in class today about how it tells you "corals are nearly impossible to keep," and "protein skimmers aren't totally worth it." However, it did mention that 5 fish per gallon was a wise formula to follow.
-And speaking of protein skimmers, I have been browsing around quite a bit, and found this:
http://www.petmountain.com/show_product/504933/?utm_source=bizrate&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=507213
The price and quality looks good to me. I have seen it on a few other websites, all with positive reviews.

Thank you for the help so far! I can't wait to start diving into researching my new marine setup. It's great to be on the Salty Side so far :)

[ralphie]

I heard Vinegar and a salt solution is good for cleaning tanks; will get right on cleaning and testing it for leaks. Has been around for over 25 years

And a razor blade to scrap off the tough parts.

So, what you're saying, is that I would do the normal calculation to find the needed GPH for the tank, and multiply that by ten?

Unsure by that, but for example for a 29 gallon tank, you want all the pumps GPH to add up to around 300 GPH.

Also, I understand that the tank's live rock/sand/other microorganisms and inverts will do most of the cleaning for you?

That is correct. I scrap algae off only the front of the tank, do a water and carbon change weekly, empty out the cups from my protein skimmer and that is all my cleaning I do. I have around over 90 lbs of live rock in my 75 gallon tank and I have an assortment of snails, crabs, shrimps, worms, starfish and an urchin to keep my tank clean. This way less work for me.

I have found a RODI system for sale on Craig's List, and I am also interested in the mini Reefer systems I've seen advertised online. Now, if I'm understanding all of this, You can drink and use the waste water from your RODI system?

I started out using a water conditioner on my tap water and I got horrendous algae in my tank when I started out. I then swritched to a RO/DI unit from AirWaterIce and I have not had any algae since. IMHO, it is a really good investment for the tank. On my unit, I can output RO water for drinking and then RO/DI for the tank. The output from these units are usually 4 gallons of waste water to 1 gallon of good water. The waste water goes into the washing machine and I used it to wash clothes.

-Will Live Rock need any special lighting at all

Live Rock, fish and inverts do not really care about lighting. You will better lighting if you want go to a reef tank, that is a tank with corals. With any lighting you can keep snails, crabs, worms, shrimps, starfish, urchins, etc. Actually, IMHO, the fish in the tank are the least interesting.

I hve to run to soccer practice with my daughter. I will finish this later..

And,

Thank you for the help so far! I can't wait to start diving into researching my new marine setup. It's great to be on the Salty Side so far ]

NO problem and it is great that you are researching before you get into it. And YES the salty side is fantastic.

[ralphie]

Sandbox/Landscaping sand is fine to use? Honestly

I got my sand from Home Depot. I do not know if I would trust landscaping sand but sandbox sand should be fine. Here is a thread where sand beds are discussed.

but possibly, could I add a scoop of beach sand or a cup of water to the tank to help give it a jump start

I would not take sand from the beach since you do not know what kind of contaminants are in it.

However, it did mention that 5 fish per gallon was a wise formula to follow

That is yesteryear's ideas. Today instead of fish per gallon we consider the type of fish, color and activity of fish. Remember some of these fish are used to controlling large areas of the reef.

How stressful would it be to transport a tank like this to a Uni possibly 200 or 300 miles away?

People transport tank(s) all the time. You would need lots of containers to hold water, sand and whatever fish or corals you have. What would you do on a long weekend? Water evaporation will raise you salinity so depending upon how much evaporation you have, you could have salinity swings which is never good.

[Freshwater Tropic]

Well, First of all... ***Welcome*** to the Marine Side of the Hobby! I just recently Joined myself. I have always heard to try and start with a larger tank when beginning W/ Marine setup's. The bigger the tank, The less chance one little Tiny change or problem will effect EVERYTHING. If ya have a small tank, One problem could wipe out EVERYTHING! Anyway, I would honestly say at least start with a 20g. Just to be safe.

I know not to rush into these things; that I need to take my time with marine tanks.

I thnk that is a great way to start. In this hobby nothing good ever happens fast. Remember after setting up your tank, it needs to cycle which can take a month or more.

Like Ralphie Mentioned, It could take a while. I actually let my tank cycle for well over 3-4 months. I Also Added a lot of live rock all At once. So I wanted to allow enough time to break down any of the dead things



All and All though, I love the Marine side of This hobby. It just feels like so much more of an accomplishment! Not that Freshwater doesn't but its just a bit easier to do a Freshwater(to Me that is).