Algae - Knockdown, Nuke, or Adjust?

[PVT-Kanaka]

Diana,

Thanks. I decided to get a fertilizer ("Excel") and some quick growing plants - water sprite and "Val." I added both after a 90% water change and gravel vacuum and another shaving of the wood. As you alluded to, something else had to be done to give the system a chance to recover its balance.

FYI, I heavily weighed the H2O2 treatment you recommended. I just didn't think I could spot treat all the wood's nooks and crannies, and I think there was simply too much of this algae hiding hither and yon throughout the tank. A more system wide approach seemed the better option.

And now...I wait!

Aloha,
Eric

[Diana]

Excel is a good substitute for CO2 for many plants. Some cannot use it, though, and some can be harmed by it.
Good luck with the algae treatment.

[PVT-Kanaka]

Thanks! So far, so good!

[PVT-Kanaka]

Update...

Daily dosages of Excel have continued. Very minimal algae return (~1% of visible surface of the java wood), and it has all but disappeared from my long-suffering Cyrpt. The surviving Java fern seems to be better, too.

As for my attempt to introduce plants, the water sprite is slowly disintegrating. Such is my fate with stem plants. The val lost some leaves, but it appears to be stable.

This week is the biweekly water purge and gravel vacuum. The algae is at a level I can live with, so I will not shave the wood; rather, I will spot check with my brush and let the filter and water change get what I knock loose. I will continue the use of Excel, and I might add some more Val. If the algae stays at this low level of return, I will keep up this pattern of dosing and slow plant addition. If not, I will scour the wood again, bite the bullet, and apply the algaecide.

Thanks again to Diana and others for letting me float these ideas around!

Aloha,
Eric

[ScottFish]

Congrats on the algae knockdown!

[PVT-Kanaka]

Update:

So the pattern of touching up the algae every other week and removing the wood for a complete scrubbing every fourth week continues. On the whole, I would guess the rate of return is slower. My Crypt looks healthier, and the Val seems to be going from holding to growing, based on a few runners with daughter plants. A sword plant I bought about 2 weeks ago, however, seems to be just holding on. I continue to dose with Excel every 1 to 2 days. I almost bought the algaecide, but I want to see if the sword plant takes, hoping it will outcompeted the algae.

Patience remains my guide on this one...

Eric

[PVT-Kanaka]

The soap opera continues...

My unspotted sword withered away. The val is not doing well, but is hanging on. Hard to say if the daughter plants are going to make it. The Crypt will be around to feed cockroaches after the Anthropocene, apparently. The algae, for its part, is fighting back, though its rate of return is much slowed. After 4-6 weeks without a complete shave, only about a third of the driftwood has this noxious stuff on it.

I asked the LFS owner about algaecide. He is fighting the same stuff in a heavily planted tank he uses to bred cory cats and lace tail "plecos." He told me not to waste my money. I threw the money at something else, of course, so all is well for both parties in the exchange.

90% water change and wood shave this week as the fight slogs on...

Aloha,
Eric

[Diana]

You could still try H2O2:
Remove the wood from the tank. Shave if needed. Dip in H2O2 for perhaps half an hour or so (until the bubbling pretty much quits). Quick rinse, return to tank. The small remnant of H2O2 after most has bubbled off, then the rinse will be OK for the tank. Hopefully the H2O2 will get into the small spaces that might be a reserve for the algae.
Another way to treat:
Figure out what is the maximum dose of H2O2 for your tank. Drain the tank for its water change. Use H2O2 in a sprayer or paint brush and apply it to the exposed parts of the tank with algae. Allow the bubbling to pretty much stop before refilling the tank.

[PVT-Kanaka]

Diana,

OK, it is time to bring out the chemicals...Let me try the external dip this week. It'll leave some of this stuff on the powerheads and electrical cords, but I am hoping that this will put the Val and Crypt in the dominant position. Failing that, I'll do the internal treatment. I am assuming for that one I have to remove the fish, too.

Mahalo,
Eric

[Diana]

For the internal treatment there are 2 ways to do this.
When H2O2 breaks down it becomes H2O and O2. These are not toxic to the fish, as long as it is not excessive. H2O2 breaks down in light. The problem in a tank is that you do not know how much of the H2O2 is broken down and how fast. The maximum amount suggested for an aquarium, and the follow up of a 50% water change before adding more is targeted at keeping the level low even if very little breaks down.

To start either of them:
Do research to find out the maximum dose of H2O2 for your tank size.
Remove as much algae as you can before starting. (pull, cut, vacuum, toothbrush... whatever works for the algae you have)

Method 1) Do not need to drain any water. Use a syringe barrel (no needle) to direct the H2O2 at the remaining clumps or areas of algae. Squirt a little at a time into each clump until you are out of H2O2. Since you did not exceed the amount of H2O2 allowed in your tank you do not need to remove the fish or other livestock. You might not have enough H2O2 to treat all the algae in one go. It may take a while to treat every clump of algae. Give it 24 hours and a 50% water change before treating again. Some algae shows really obviously that is it dying. For example, various species of black algae turn pink when they are dying.

Method 2) Do as big a water change as you want. The lower the water level the more algae is exposed. Use a spray bottle, or the syringe, or a paint brush and apply H2O2 to the exposed algae. Only use the maximum amount that is safe for your tank. Allow it to bubble for a while, then refill the tank (don't forget the dechlor!)
If you want to use this method with a larger water change (such as to get at algae on the floor of the tank) you will have to remove livestock.
Variation of method 2) Remove livestock. Drain the tank. Use as much H2O2 as you need to to thoroughly treat all the algae you can see. Allow it to bubble for a while (perhaps half an hour). Partially refill, running the water over all the areas you treated, rinsing the remaining H2O2 off the treated areas. Remove this water (it may still have H2O2 in it) then refill the tank (don't forget the dechlor!) You can put the livestock back in. The rinse and drain will remove enough of the H2O2 that any remaining H2O2 is not a problem. I would still wait 24 hours and do another 50% water change before treating again, just in case...

Here is an alternate method to treat the algae. Follow the directions exactly, especially noting the proper dosing. I know this is a long post, but I have read through about the first 100 posts or so, and the most important point discussed by all the people when this was new has been added to the first post in red.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-al ... tment.html

[PVT-Kanaka]

Mahalo, Diana.

Tomorrow, after a Veterans Day observance, is water change day, so I will treat stuff externally then. This will include the wood, power heads, and HOB filter uptake. That'll knock things back and give me time to research your recommended string...and let the lazy man see if I have to go that route!

Have a great weekend!
Eric

[PVT-Kanaka]

...so 477 posts later on the "1-2 Punch" and I am pretty convinced some sort of internal nuking is in order. I have to chew on it. I like your method of draining, catching the livestock (I have a spare 20 gal tank ready to hand), clobbering every little thing, refilling, and restocking. Seems less risky in the long run.

Assuming one or more of these methods works, I have to address the issue of "What caused this?" The tank has been in the same place for years with roughly the same maintenance routine (90% water change with deep cleaning of the gravel and a backflush of filter media every two weeks.). Until a year or so ago, java fern, anubias, and moss grew well, and my Crypt was slowly spreading. Then came this algae onslaught..This roughly corresponds to the introduction of an LED light to replace a burnt-out fluorescent strip light, but who knows?

Amongst the 477 posts, was this tidbit that caused me to question my routine:

How big is the tank? frequent water changes may be causing your bba issues, especially if its during the light cycle, as this will cause a fluctuation in co2 levels. I would do once a week water change after lights out, or before co2 comes on. do a double dose of excel for a few weeks(some use triple dose), and this should kill the bba....however if we dont fix the root cause the bba then it will continue to spread or likely come back.

I could trim back the photo period more. The light is on for 10 hrs now. Perhaps 6 hrs would be better (it is a pretty bright room)? I've no desire to get a CO2 system (too many curious little hands in this house!), but do I need to consider mixing in some sort of nutritive soil with the gravel to stimulate plant growth? Do I need to do my maintenance during "lights out" periods? I have a number of low tech tanks happily bubbling along, some for years, but is it time to retire these and invest in my big tank? I have had such good success with a simple formula of overfilter, understock, keep fish your neighbor can keep alive, and massive water changes for so long, but this algae nonsense is really causing me to rethink my strategy here.

It is late, and I have lots to ponder. It seems I have the tools to treat the symptoms; now I have to figure out how to address a mystery cause.

Thanks so much again, Diana!

Aloha,
Eric

[Diana]

Research your light, see if you can find out the PAR rating. This is a measure of how much of the light provides which wave lengths that are particularly useful to plants.

Test the water for NO3 and any other tests you have. Use the NO3 test as a guide for all the other nutrients.
Plants and algae need over a dozen elements to live. Some are supplied like hydrogen and oxygen. Some may fluctuate as you feed the fish then do water changes. Fish food is generally pretty high in N, P, and most trace minerals.
The nutrients that are often lacking are C, K and Fe.
Potassium can be added as a fertilizer.
Carbon can be added in the form of Excel.
Iron can be added as a trace mineral, in a blend with others or separately. For example, Seachem makes a line of fertilizers that includes some combinations and some individual nutrients. Do not overload the system with excessive trace minerals.

How to use the NO3 test to approximate all the others:
Test NO3 right before a water change. This is a test showing how much of all the things in fish food that accumulate between water changes. This is a measure of all the fish food you have added minus what the plants are using up.
If NO3 is very low (under 5ppm) then all the plant nutrients that are common in fish food can be assumed to be low.
If NO3 is fairly low (5-10ppm) then the plant nutrients supplied by fish food can be assumed to be adequate.
Over 10ppm suggests an excess of plant nutrients.

This says nothing about minerals supplied by the water. Test the GH and TDS of the tap water (or whatever you use to fill the tank). Tap water quality might be available from your water company.
High GH or TDS suggests that some minerals may be supplied by tap water. This MIGHT include things like potassium or iron.

It is true that fluctuating levels of CO2 might be related to algae growth.
It is true that fluctuating levels of CO2 might be caused by large water changes.

If you have always done water changes this way, and the algae growth only took off when you changed the light bulb, it might be that the new bulb was brighter than the old, offering the plants and algae more energy, so they needed more of all the elements they need to grow. As the plants and algae removed elements that might have been in short supply (perhaps potassium), or temporary excess (like fluctuating CO2 levels) this triggered conditions that favored the algae. Some algae seems to respond better to fluctuating nutrient levels like this.

How about adding some slow release fertilizer under each plant? Seachem makes a compressed tablet that will dissolve slowly, providing a more even level of fertilizer over time.

[PVT-Kanaka]

Dian,

It is done...
I tried the "One-Two Punch," but, after reading and thinking hard about it, I opted to remove the fish (6x Colombian tetras; 1x pink skirt; 2x red tailed botia; 1x yo-yo loach; 1x "chainshot" loach; 1x flying fox). Nothing in those posts mentioned loaches, so felt it best to err on the side of caution. I also removed all wood for a shave, replaced it, and topped off all evaporation. The last step was to ensure some #$@%! spores weren't hiding above the evaporation line.

I then followed the method as described, though, as I took out all of the fish, I left the ratio at 4 Tablespoons H2O2 per 10 gallons, with the assumption I had 50 gallons of water. At about the 10 minute point, I noted small bubbles coming from the driftwood and from the sponges that are at the intake of my pumps (They are exposed to light and thus I assumed an algae sanctuary.). Also algae started to turn red and fall off with very little effort (Yay!). Again, with no fish, I let the mixture stay in for 20 minutes, vice 15, before starting a 90% drain. As I drained, I kept repositioning the wood lower into the water column. I also agitated the gravel while I vacuumed it, in part to get algae and in part I have a lurking suspicion something down in the gravel caused my clown loach's wasting disease (Kill it!). At around the 30 minute mark, I noted some pearling from my Crypt. I filled the tank, used a water conditioner (Normally, I don't use these. It seemed wise.), and hit it with Excel (the second punch). The fish are back in the tank, which looks pretty clean, and now we wait...

I understand it may take 3-5 days for the last of the black beard algae to go away and that I will likely have to flush my HOB filter's media again. Small price to pay if this works!

Prior to kicking this off, I did test for NO3 using a strip. It is less than 10 ppm, so, roughly, I am in the very to fairly low category. Other parameters of note:

NO2 0-.5 ppm
GH 75 ppm
kH 40-80 ppm

All told, I guess I am less than optimal for anything but a batch of Crypts, which might explain why it has never advanced beyond its little section but flourishes in roughly the same floor space in the neighboring 10 gal aquarium. Apparently, the "one-two punch" will do in my Vals, but, if this all works, then I will look to those dissolving root tabs, plop one amidst my crypt, and see what happens.

Finally, the light. It is Fluval's 35 Watt, 60" "Color+LED" with the product name "AQUASKY." It is rated for 3000-25000K and 2,400 lumens. It is normally set to one of the daylight settings, which I assume is on the upper end of that scale. Maybe it is an issue of light, too.

I'll post updates over the next couple days to see if the remaining algae goes away. In the meantime, two more aquariums await their water change!

Aloha,
Eric

[PVT-Kanaka]

At 24 hours...

...fish are fine. Massive water changes are part of their routine. The near total water change probably deleted h2O2 to negligible, anyway.
...green spot and film algae on the glass seems no worse for the wear. This was never the problematic stuff.
...black beard algae, the main issue, seems to be doing poorly. Lots of it has a reddish tint, and it is starting to thin. I can actually make out the brand information on my powerheads.

Updates to follow.

Eric