Suggestions for top layer fish in a South American Tank

[GalwayFishFan]

Hello all!

My first post on the forums.. be gentle!

I'm currently going through a fishless cycle with a 29 gallon long tank, and I'm thinking of making it a South American tank.
I'm thinking of rummy nose tetra's for the middle/lower layer of fish, and I'm also debating to get some corydora's for bottom feeders, along with a Bolivian Ram.

I've been trying to find a suitable top layer fish to balance the tank, but apart from Hatchet fish, I can't really think of any other species to try. I've nothing against Hatchet fish, I just don't really like them, to be honest (no offence to the Hatchet lovers out there!).

So any idea's? I know it's going to be a while until the tank is ready for the fish, but I'd like to get it all planned out now.
I'm not sure on the hardness etc. of the water, I'm still trying to find that out, but I do know that my pH (pH?) is around 7.8, which I know is too high for the fish selection, but I'm planning on getting the pH down when the tank has cycled.

My apologies if this is the wrong section, by the way... like I said, it's my first time :)
Thanks,
GFF.

[lou zello]

correct section,but you must first figure out what you want to put in the tank,then see if you really need to adjust your pH,hardness,etc. for the fish you want to keep,allso the temp you want to keep the tank at so that everyone is happy.I'm not positive but i think ram's need to be warmer than cory's that's the thing i meant by what i said above.

[Crazygar]

Beckford's Pencilfish, they prefer more Mid to Top Strata in the tank. Get yourself a good sized group and they will form a giant mass of fish once the lights go out... oh, welcome to the Forums!

Gary

[GalwayFishFan]

Hey Crazygar and lou Zello.
Thanks for the replies. I thought after I'd posted it that it might have been better off in the Freshwater Beginers section.

I've got absolutly no experience with Pencilfish, so I guess I'm going to have to do some research over the next few days. Do you have experience with the Beckfords Pencilfish? I've done a little bit of research, and it seems like there maybe a problem with male/female ratio's and aggresiveness? Can any one confirm this?

Thanks for the heads up on the water perameters lou zello. From what I've seen a temperature of about 24-25C should be okay for the fish I'd like in the tank. I've still to address the pH level in the tank, as from what I can gather, the Rummies and the Bolivian like lower pH. I'm still waiting for Galway water to get back to me regarding the hardness and alkilinity etc.

GFF

[Crazygar]

I wrote an article for TFH Magazine entitled "Anything But Tetras" regarding Beckford's Pencilfish. With all fish, you are going to have a bit of Male/Male, Male/Female aggession, the larger the groups and the sexes at a proper ratio you can control this and lower it right down.

Beckford's prefer a more acidic pH. Definitely work on naturally lowering your water pH. I use Peat and RO Water to help naturally lower my pH here. My water out of the tap is a pH of 8.3, in my tank, I have it at 6.5

Gary

[GalwayFishFan]

Hello Crazygar,
Ah, that was you who wrote the piece? It's one of the first search results when I checked in Google. Sorry I didn't spot that, but it's kinda late here :) It was a good read, but I'm going to have to re-read it tomorrow when I'm more awake.

I'm definitly living in the right country if peat is going to help lower the pH. Looks like more research is going to be heading my way... Strange that the water out of the tap at my home is 7.8 pH, as i'd have thought that it would be lower, but I guess it depends on where the water is coming from. Back when I was living in England, the water in the tap was a kind of pale brown... it used to come from the moors, which gave it it's strange colour and distinctive taste. I'm guessing that this is the kind of water that you mean?

Would you recommend any of the store bought solutions for lowering pH? I've seen a couple at the lfs, but again I don't have any experience with them.
Thanks,
GFF

[Crazygar]

Oh most definitely the right country for Peat. Once again, make sure it's 100% natural stuff and if possible avoid the stuff close to fields were Farmers spray. I usually put peat underneath my substrate but for your purposes a media bag in the filter will do just fine as well.

This will help naturally lower the pH and soften the water.

That "Brown Water" most likely had a pH of 6.0 and would have been wonderful for your tanks GFF. Now, if you want to have something that works with your pH would be Rift Lake Cichlids or Central American Cichlids/Livebearers.

Gary

[lou zello]

i agree with everything the CRAZYGAR said.i used to have peat in both cannister filters when i kept discus years ago and i plan to do the same thing after my sister-in-law moves out of my basement(whenever that may be!!!!!????)and i put my 40gal back up.i do know it is going to be discus,corys,a pleco or two(small ones)and a good group of dither fish i just don't know what yet.

[Crazygar]

Since peat releases slowly, it will slowly lower the pH and hardness as well. Depending on how far you want to go, you can setup a "reservoir" and have it totally black from peat to use at water change time. If you are interested in setting up a reservoir, let me know, I'll give you the instructions on how.

Gary

[GalwayFishFan]

Hey Crazygar,

Thanks for the advice! I'd definatly be interested in the reservior. Space is at a bit of a premium at my house, so if it involves a lot of equipment/space that could be a problem. I do have an outside shed that needs cleaning out, so that might be suitable. I guess I'll know when you I get the instructions.

You can get two types of peat here. There is the Bord Na Mona briquettes, which seem to be compressed peat, and the normal kind that looks like hard turf,with a lot of plant material inside. I've got both types, so I'll experiment with them and see what happens. I've got a feeling that the Bord Na Mona peat has been treated in some way, but that's a gut feeling.

Still waiting to find out the rest of the water parameters. Fingers crossed that comes soon.

I agree with the South American Chiclids-very interesting fish, and they don't seem quite as aggressive (from what I can gather) as their African cousins. I'm planning to get a male Bolivian Ram as a 'centerpiece' fish. It's really the rummynose tetra's and the corydora's that I'm concerned about regarding pH etc.

Thanks again for the help and advice!

GFF.

[Crazygar]

Setting Up A Reservoir;

1) Need a 10 or 20GAL tank with lid
2) Need a good heater
3) Need a strong powerhead (you need to turn the water into a throthing, churning gusher!)
4) Need a thermometer (set to full)
5) Natural Peat in a media bag

Thankfully you have the shed, you'll be getting a super earthy smell from cooking Peat. Though I know the area you are in, so it shouldn't be all that noticeable, since you are top of a great source to begin with.

A few days before doing a water change in your main tank, pour in some water and put in your water treatment. Don't fill it up all the way, fill it to the 3/4 full mark.

Turn on your heater to full. The heat will help dissolve the peat quicker into the water column.

Place in the media bag with your natural peat and attach it to the aquarium as not to let it float around.

Turn on your power head and get that water agitated. Within 2 days, with the heat and water agitation you'll have some seriously black water. Simply stop the equipment and drain what you need.

The water from the tank will be super hot, just let it cool off and add when it's cooled down to close to the tank temperature. At first, do little doses, don't do a huge change right away, small bits and let the inhabitants get acclimatizated slowly. Over time, you can add a little bit more. I usually did 20/80% mixture and things were fine, but where I used to live the pH was 7.0, so I didn't have to work it all that hard.

Make sure it's natural peat, if you have a gut feeling about something being treated, go with your instincts.

Gary

[lou zello]

i again agree with the crazyguy !!! i allways used peat from the fish store,you know it's safe and when put in the cannisters i thought it worked nice and slow and lasted a long time in keeping the pH down in the 6's,if thats what you are looking for.

[GalwayFishFan]

Hello All,

Thanks for the instructions, Crazygar.

Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to take those steps. Ever had one of those days? I checked out the shed this morning to see about getting the black water set up, and I noticed that water was dripping from the light (Been a lot of bad weather in the last few days). Having suffered a electric shock from a fuse box a number of years ago, I didn't go anywhere near the switches. The plug sockets on the wall are also looking damp, so I'm going to have to ask the landlady to bring an electrician around to check them out.

So.

That was this morning. I went down to the lfs this afternoon, only to be informed that the Bolivian Ram that they assured me they could obtain 'isn't on the list, so we can't get hold of one'. When I asked about Beckfords (or Golden) pencil fish, they weren't available either.

And now to top it all off, I've miscalculated the size of the tank. It's not a 29 Gallon, it's actually a 16 Gallon tank. I've got no idea where I got the idea it was a 29 Gallon. It's the Marina Style 60, 24'' x 12'' x 13''. Rookie, rookie mistake, and I'm kicking myself for the oversight.

So, I'm going to take the opportunity to re-think the tank. I'm still going to go with the Rummie Nose Tetra's (I absolutely love the way that they school so tightly), but add a few more, and make it up to about 10-12 depending on availability. 5 x Peppered or Bronze Corydora's for the substrate, and wait and see how the tank holds up after that.

According to Aqadvisor, I'm near the limits of stocking the tank, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to actually put anymore fish in the tank in the future.

I know you're gonna have up and down days in fish keeping, but today really feels like a down day.
Still, I guess that means that I'm going to have to get another tank at some point to try to achieve my goal of keeping chiclids at some point.

Guys, thanks for all the help over the last few days. I've got a few questions about plants, but I'll start a thread in the proper forum. I'm going to be taking pictures of the tank in the next few days, so I'll make sure I post them as well. I'm really liking the way it's looking at the minute. I suppose I've been really trying to get this tank 'perfect' before any fish go into it, and while it's soo frustrating looking at a fish tank with no fish in it, I know holding off for a while until it's ready is going to pay off in the long run.

GFF

[Crazygar]

Keep us posted bud, yeah, I've been there myself, when the fish I want so bad just seems to unattainable (aka Zebra Otocinclus). Not a problem with the Help, that's what we all do best here.

Gary

[Arsene Liu]

You have other choice such as oryzias javanicus or Africa lampeye(Aplocheilichthys normani)
The javanicus could eat(filter) foods, oil-like membrane near the surface of water.