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Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:29 am
by wmoore2600
Can anyone diagnose this particular eye problem? I thought maybe hole in the head, but not sure. It's a depression in the upper eye socket, behind the eye. I've treated with Metronidazole but no change. Any one ever seen this before, and if so, what is it, how is it caused, and do you treat it?

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:53 pm
by wmoore2600
Sorry, HOW do you treat it?

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:41 pm
by Diana
Are there any other symptoms?
Stringy feces?
Not eating?
Rotting fins?
Holes (pits) elsewhere on this fish, or on other fish?

Are all the conditions in the tank correct? Water parameters, including temperature?

If you have already treated with Metro, then there are a few more ideas.

1) HITH is pretty persistent. Were you also adding vitamins and doing plenty of water changes? If not, perhaps repeat the Metro, and add these other things. Or... maybe the Metro had done its job, the organism is dead, but the fish needs more time to recover. Add whatever may be lacking (if anything) to their diet, see if it helps.

2) Perhaps this is not HITH, and Metro is not the correct med. Change medication. (I do not know what else would cause that)

3) Alternate idea: Maybe it is not a disease at all, but an injury. Are there other fish in the tank? Could they have been chasing each other and this one bumped into something? Usually Discus are slow enough moving that without something to startle or scare them I would not think they could get hurt.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:31 pm
by wmoore2600
Temp 84F, 0 Nitrates, GH 2, KH 7, pH 6.8. Started another round of Metro last night. Definitely not trauma. The top pic is a white discus and once I noticed the eye problem I had to wait for the Metro to arrive. Before that I used salt and watched the eye get worse. Now a third discus (second photo) is the reason I registered and posted here. All of them did have the white stringy feces once they arrived. I'll see if the round work, and also have Pimafix and Melafix on the way.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:26 pm
by Petrichor
I'm very sorry to hear that your fish have fallen ill!

Although I am in no ways a discus expert, I've done a bit of research based on the information provided (strange depressions in eye sockets and white feces) and come up with a few different possibilities. As always, these are just guesses, and if you notice anything else strange or abnormal going on with your fish, both behavioral and physical, be sure to alert us.

At first glance I was very unsure as to what could've been the cause. Having depressions in the eye sockets is not something I've seen a lot in the hobby, but, as both you and Diana thought, I assumed it was hole-in-the-head as well. I've noticed that depending on the species of cichlid, the types and placement of hole-in-the-head can vary in vast amounts. When researching discus with HITH specifically, I did see a recurring theme: there were spots on the head (of course), but also a somewhat unusual eye shape. While I have yet to see a fish with something that looks extremely similar to the pictures you've shown us, there is a good chance that it is HITH.

The white feces can also be easily attributed to hole-in-the-head. Spironucleus/hexamita - parasites both known for causing HITH - often cause this. It was a very good idea to use the Metro; though evidently something is either hindering its process or it is a resistant or different type of illness entirely.

As for Pimafix/Melafix, do not be afraid to use them both at the same time. It is actually recommended that you do. The only thing I would be cautious about is the Metro working alongside the Pimafix and Melafix. Since they are made by different brands, few people have reported as to whether or not they are safe to be used together. I wouldn't think it would cause any harm, but it's just something to take note of.

I hope this will be of some help. Keep us updated if anything changes. Best wishes for you and your fish. c:

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:11 am
by Diana
Pimafix and Melafix work externally, and are best at the very beginning of a problem. They are not strong meds. They inhibit the growth of the bacteria and fungi just enough that the fishes' own immune system can fight back.

If these things have been going on a while then I do not think Pimafix or Melafix will help. Also, if it is not an injury, then I suspect it is a disease or something inside the fish.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:46 am
by wmoore2600
I'll say I'm truly thankful for both of your responses! I've got a couple more hours till the lights comes on and can then throughly evaluate their response from the last treatment. I will keep everybody posted...

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:45 pm
by Petrichor
You're very welcome! It's my pleasure to try and help. ^-^ Alrighty.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:44 pm
by Skylane
I'm sorry to hear this, as I've never seen this before, the advice given is very good but just a mention as to what water temp are you treating at, maybe higher can help with the meds currently using for parasites. This is very interesting and just sucks when it happens, but you seem to have started treatment early, good luck with this as I think positive for your fish and their recovery.

Clem

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:45 pm
by wmoore2600
Well, so far so good, as of Saturday night. They've stopped with the white stringy feces, and all are active and eating well. The eye problem is still there with the ones that have it. But nobody else has developed it. Maybe they will heal or maybe not. But they seem healthy. Unfortunately, I won't be able to see them again till Tuesday. And that will be one day over the treatment time, per the medication, for a water change.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:47 pm
by Diana
Looking at pictures of HITH, it seems that most often it looks more like small pits or maybe a bit larger, but not like a dent that seems to show in your pictures. I am not sure this is HITH. Can you take clearer pictures?

I am glad the white feces are clearing up. At least one problem seems to be taken care of.

Do not worry about going one day over the medication's instructions for a water change. Just do the water change when you get back.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:30 pm
by wmoore2600
Well, finished that round. The second pic (third fish) all cleared up. The fist two still look the same, but are eating and active. I started the Pima/Melafix combo Tuesday. Just to rule the big three out; parasites, bacteria, and fungus. As far as pictures, this forum only allows pictures of 200kb or less.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:06 pm
by Petrichor
I'm glad it seemed to clear out in the third fish! I hope the other two have done alright since then.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:02 pm
by wmoore2600
Well, bad news. Sorry for not updating earlier but have been very discouraged. Now, I'm down to 5 discus. All of the ones with eye problems died. Also others, and I'm not sure why...
I've also been dealing with a persistent, "I believe to be a diatom issue" that just won't cease. All of my water parameters are spot on, but just can't get a handle on it.

Re: Discus eye diagnosis

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:11 pm
by ScottFish
I'm sorry to hear about your bad news. I had discus; they were like family.