Apistogramma Agassizii Frat House

[Schmidtsie]

What's the smallest tank you'd keep two male Apistogramma Agassizii in? No females at the store.

Would a 20 gallon long be okay or would you go larger? Or should I just put one in the 20 gallon long?

Tankmates would possibly include otocinclus, pygmy corydoras, celestial pearls danios, horned nerite snails, amano shrimp and red cherry shrimp as its what I current own and could shift around to various other tanks if needed.

MTS always gives you options.

Any other suggestions for my first foray into fish larger than a zebra danio and my rather large amano shrimp?

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Schmidtsie
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[Crazygar]

The answer is easy, in my tank. Two males, 20LONG, broken line of sight and loads of visual territories. 20LONGS will provide enough distance. Let me guess, Petland Stonebridge...

Gary

[Schmidtsie]

Actually Petland Confederation, I put the last two on hold. I've never seen apistos in a store here and boom there they were.

I thought I should reach out for advice before making the purchase. I try and not make impulse buys when it comes to fish as I want to make sure I know what I'm getting into.

Should I only buy one? It's just there's not much information out there on keeping two agassizii males in the same tank without any females.

I have a 20 gallon long that they can go into. I'll tweak the aquascaping as you suggested as that's was my inclination after reading up on matters. Or should I pass on them this time and get a bigger tank for the next time, whenever that may be?

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Schmidtsie
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[Crazygar]

Most Apistogramma males will get along fine as long as there is loads of space to define territories and loads of visual blocks to keep each other out of line of sight. I've done it in tanks as small as 10GAL but I've learned through the years that the 20LONG is the ultimate tank.

Savage, I might have to swing by and check out the said "held" fish. Har har. That's ok, I want my Embers before Apistos.

Gary

[Schmidtsie]

Well I broke out the kegs and beer pong and started my frat house.

Here's a quick couple pics of the two frat boys in the QT:





I know the plants could use a bit of a trim/clean up.

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Schmidtsie
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[C. Andrew Nelson]

Outstanding "pledges" for your fraternity!

[ScottFish]

I can hear them chanting: "Bring on the women!"

[Hurriken]

Those are great looking fish. Good colors. TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!

[Crazygar]

I'll bring the Beer Bong. I went down to Confed to check them out before you picked them up. The lady in the Fishroom saw me staring intently at them and asked, "Are you Trent", for a few seconds, horns appeared.

Nice catch though. Can we have a full tank shot?

Gary

[Schmidtsie]

Even though the two new pledges were adapting quite well to life in the frat house things took a sudden turn for the worse this week. The Inter-fraternity Council shut Delta Apisto Gamma down due to two mysterious deaths despite health officials passing the living conditions multiple times over the past 10 months as follows:

• NH3: 0 (0)
• N02: 0 (0)
• NO3: 5 to 10 (<20)
• pH: 7.0 (5.0 to 7.5)
• Temp: 24`C or 75`F (22 to 29`C or 72 to 84`F)
• Hardness: 140ppm (0 to 179ppm)
• WC: 15% twice weekly (treated with Seachem Prime)

Note: the bracketed numbers were the Delta Apisto Gamma ideal living conditions stated in their charter

It’s unknown if one of the other brothers or sisters is a carrier of nefarious origins as the 4 pygmy corys, 3 otocinclus, 6 celestial pearl danios, two orange propinqua shrimp and the lone nerite snail all appear to be in perfect health and unaffected by the recent events.

There were no reported loud obnoxious parties with binge eating/drinking that needed to be cleaned up and every one appeared to be getting well rounded meals prepared for them daily at the canteen. Living and studying (and partying) conditions remained stable with each pledge getting their own cave and space in the frat house. Although there was a mini-bloodworm night and a glass worm night besides a variety of pellets, microgranules and freeze dried fair.

There was a report of both pledges breathing heavy and either floating high or low in the water column with their coloration deeping a bit in the last hours despite conditions being similar to those measured by the health officials on multiple occassions. There was also some erratic swimming reported in the final minutes. Both pledges died rather quickly.

Their father is torn two bits after being united with his two long lost sons only just two and a half weeks ago. They seemed to be adjusting to college life quite well just a half week ago and getting ready to strut their stuff for the ladies should they come across them.

Any further pertinent information the public can provide that may help determine the cause of the quick mysterious deaths would be appreciated. All other brother and sisters despite the circumstances appear in stable condition.
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Schmidtsie (aka the adoptive father)
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p.s. Next time Crazygar let the devils horns take over, as I am seriously mad and sad all at once. Fudge a duck. As I have no clue what happened.
p.p.s. What the heck did I do wrong? Fully cycled tank. Controlled feeding. Stable water parameters. Plants, driftwood and caves and whatnot to define territories. Floating plants to diffuse light. Small dither fish. They pick up something at the fish store? They pick something up from the frozen food?

Aaaaarrrggghhhhh!!!!!

[twotone12valve]

I am not expert, but my vote isn't on the food because I'm sure the entire frat house was eating the same thing. They are sensitive little guys to abrupt water fluctuations, do you use CO2 could there have been a pH drop at night that you didn't catch?

[Schmidtsie]

I'm just baffled as I thought I did everything right.

Based on all the various websites, forums, magazines and books I've read everything was well within the recommended ranges for Apistogramma Agassizii. I purposely waited to keep them until I mastered keeping a very stable and fully cycled tank.

I use the Nutrafin Test Kit with all chemicals still before the best before/expiry date to test my water parameters. I also get my wife who's a trained chemist to do the testing.

I've setup a drip system for aclimatizing fish from the fish store and never lose fish after bringing them home unless there was a netting snafu/gaff by the sales associate and I was expecting it. It's been a long time since I lost a fish and take pride in that fact.

I have a 1/4 inch syphon I use to remove extra food and whatnot from the tanks. And I dechlorinate the water with Seachem Prime and let it sit in 5 gallon buckets. I also use Seachem Stability when the need dictates.

My tanks are all low tech with no CO2 at the moment. The frat house was mainly populated with amazon frogbit, susswassertang, christmas moss, guppy grass, java fern and windelov java fern. There is malaysian drift wood in the tanks that was boiled months ago.

I'm at my wits end.

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Schmidtsie
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[twotone12valve]

You know it could have possible just been a freak incident, my Agassizii are in a tank that is by no means there ideal water parameters. My pH is 7.5 and the water is on the harder side not horribly hard but hard enough that my pH remains very stable, sorry I have no recent test on anything I'm in need of new testing supplies. My Apisto's seem very happy they have actually started breeding with no success of corse being as they live in a community with kribs still. I really have to say stability is key. My be your stock had something underlining before you brought them home such as fatty liver disease. Who really knows it sounds like your tanks conditions were more than desirable for them I can't think of a clear answer.

[Crazygar]

We (my Ex GF and I) lucked out 2 years when we saw a small juvenile Apisto at Stonebridge. We named the pledge "Nim" and was placed in a House by itself. It soon grew up (had it for 2 years) to become a lovely Apistogramm agasizzi 'Tefe'. It died a Virgin (horrible way to go) but luck had it that I had spotted it in the tank, even the Staff had no idea it was there.

I saw your Pledges, they were older Sir, in fact, well beyond the age of majority and almost in the stages of Retirement. What killed them is most like what has been bad luck for me as well with Confed Apistos -- the conditions. I had batches of A.velifera, A.cacatoides and A.Steel Blue die within hours or weeks of purchase. From that same location.

I can hook you up with a Breeder out East (Windsor Ontario) that has seriously quality Apistos. Sorry to hear your pledges didn't last long. The trick - get juvvies or from the other location. That location well, you've seen it -- dismal.

Gary